Big debate: does it matter if the next England manager is English?

Howard Wilkinson and Javier Clemente discuss the ongoing question over the country’s top football job

My Comment

Isn’t part of the interest and fun in international footy that different styles and football cultures are pitted against each other?

Javi makes some good points about English footy and I can add that here in Spain the Premier League is second only to La Liga in popularity and always has been as far as I can remember. Why don’t more people watch Italian football in Europe? Could it be that a lot of people find the ‘hyper-defence’ boring? Italians used to applaud the ‘Catenaccio’ in action and the endless 1 nil matches. Fair enough that style of play comes from Italian football culture. But is that the way we really want ENGERLAND to play?

My best memories of England performances in recent years have been: vs. Poland & Argentina in the 1986 World Cup. The semi in 1990. Vs Holland & Germany in Euro 1996 and Argentina in 1998. Performances when ENGERLAND played like ENGERLAND – fast paced attacking passing football. Ok we haven’t won the cups but at that level the difference between victory and defeat is sometimes detirmined by luck.

I’m not against a non-English manager per se but I am against the idea we have to try and copy other nation’s style of play. English and foreign players in the Premiership play in the English style in the main. It’s said that even the best foreign players need a year to adapt to our style. I’ve heard interviews with Spanish players who play in the Premiership who marvel at the pace and ‘never-say-die’ attitude in England. They take that attitude on the pitch when they play for Spain. Something they learn from English football.

So why do we expect ENGERLAND players to stroke the ball around the back for half an hour like the Italians when we play internationals? Why try and get our players to adopt a strange system?

As Javi said we have great players. Let’s just let them play the way they are used to. I think on balance a British manager could best achieve that.

The brutal truth is that English football isn’t good enough

England’s defeat to Croatia at Wembley must serve as a wake-up call, just as Hungary’s 6-3 win at the same venue did in 1953

Paul Doyle’s article

My Comment

Great article Paul but I can’t agree with your conclusion.If we’re going to have international footy surely the fun is in seeing the difference in the styles of the various countries. It would be boring if we all played the same. Croatia were hungrier than England, it’s not just the skill. The Premier League is the pinacle of football captialism in the world. It’s the place where there is the biggest gap between the players and the fans as regards wealth and social status. There has been a ‘middleclassisation’of English footy. Our only path to salvation is to reclaim the game for the working class. The solution lies within the country on the playing fields of Newcastle, Liverpool and perhaps even Hackney Marshes.

Back off, Jock-baiters

Iain Macwhirter’s article

My Comment

I agree with your argument in as far as it goes but I feel you have to go beyond narrow nationalism. This comment for example:

‘Scotland would be one of the wealthiest countries in the world.’

‘Countries’ don’t have wealth – capitalist classes do. You should go back to Robert Tressell. Scotland can only be finally ‘liberated’ in a free democratic socialist federation of Britain and Ireland. (For starters.)

Ahmadinejad’s image problem

Khaled Diab’s article

My Comment

You’re a disgrace Diab. You’ve sided with the rich and powerful. I’ll take an underpaid badly dressed civil servant working his balls off for his family over the priviliged son of an oil multi-millionaire every time.

Thank you, Mr Blair

Martin Kettle’s article

My Comment

At the end of the day it’s a class question. The LP has been hijacked by the middle class tendancy. I looked at the faces and suits in the conference hall during TB’s speech and only saw ex-working class representatives and middleclass careerists. These people only care about themselves and their careers. New Labour can’t last for much longer in historical terms because it hasn’t got a class or ideological base. Journos like Martin can bow down at the ‘brilliance’ of TB all they like but as many have pointed out on CiF ‘it’s only froth.’ Looks like we’ll have to build a new Labour Party if we want justice in this world but that’s another story….

Blair’s final day as prime minister

 

Guardian News Blog

My Comment

So farewell then Tony Blair,
Moderniser and traditionalist
Hammer of the left, admirer of the Thatch
European? English? Brown noser of Bush.
Tough on the poor and soft on millionaires.
Botherer of god. Once CofE now church of Rome
Who are you Mr.B?
Now you’re gone we don’t have to care.

Coronation of Gordon Brown

Guardian News Blog

My Comment

No-one has commented on the sickening nationalist symbolism at Gordon’s crowning. What place has the union jack as the backdrop to the a conference of the party of labour? The press and miniscule middle-class membership of the New Labour are giving this event an importance it doesn’t deserve. Historically the real decisions are being made in union branches as workers decide to re-found a true party of labour. This New Labour has a limited shelf life because it is based on nothing but the desire for power and the aspiration to manage the big business system ‘better’ and sometimes more humanely than the capitalist’s 1st eleven. It will all end in tears for Gordon.

I quite enjoyed this vicious comment about my views……..

Comment by JamesRR

ljepo – what ’sickening nationalist symbolism’? It was a union flag, not a swastika you idiot.

What place does this flag have at a Labour conference? – errr, well let’s see. Labour is a BRITISH political party and Gordon Brown is about to become the BRITISH Prime Minister – note the emphasis on British. The flag looked just fine, so if you don’t like it, go and join the LibDems who are as equally wussy as you.

The reason why ‘no-one has commented’ on this is because you’re the only one who has a problem with it – get a life.

…………only a few months since Gordon’s power grab but I do feel my comment was on the ball.

Use of English

Sunny Hundal’s article

My Comments

I want to add my support to Ishouldapologise’s comments. The debate about language and immigration in Britain is extremely superficial and led mostly by people who have no idea of what is involved in learning a 2nd language. I doubt there are many immigrants who don’t want to learn English. Most people agree that ESOL provsion is abysmal. Every learner is different and learns in their own way. Many factors are involved in the process. It’s not just a question of attending classes. As an English teacher I’ve never met anyone who has achieved a high level of English just by attending classes.

The criticism of immigrants for not learning English is boardering on the racist. The fact is most immigrants learn English to the level sufficient for their needs. If an older person spends most of their time indoors looking after the house or grandkids why should they achieve advanced levels of English? The kids will learn English in school anyway.

I’ve always found it ironic that one of the most monolingual societies in the world insists that immigrants have to perform miracles with English. Patience! Are there any children of black and Asian Britains who came here in the 1960s / 70s 0r 80s who don’t speak English? These so called ‘language problems’ will be ironed out with the next generation. In the meantime lets have a bit of perspective and be a bit more understanding.

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I live in the Basque Country. My 10 year old daughter attends a Basque Language School. I speak English to her. Her mother speaks Bosnian to her. When we are all together we speak Spanish because because my partner doesn’t speak English.

My daughter speaks four languages to varying degrees of competence but I would say she is fluent in all four and does very well in school in both Euskara (Basque)and all her other subjects. She learnt Spanish in the street like me.

The point is even though we are immigrants here in Euskadi it doesn’t mean we have to reject and lose our cultures as many people unfortunately do.

An Indian kid won’t learn English from their Grandparents or indeed their parents if they are not natives. They’ll learn it at school and in the street interacting with people.

I would never recommend speaking to your kids in your second language unless you were truly bilingual. It’s always best to speak to children in your native tongue for linguistic and cultural reasons.

My main point is that I’m not convinced that immigrants have a problem or don’t learn English or somehow the fault is theirs.

Learning a language is hard and depends on loads of factors. Integration is important and sure it depends on the language but perhaps some immigrants don’t learn English well because they don’t integrate but we should be asking why? Could it perhaps be that they feel rejected, exploited discrimated against by the British people? When those feelings exist it’s natural that immigrants will fall back on what they know – their language & religion for example.

My main point still stands – I don’t know of any 2nd generation immigrants who are not fluent in the language of the country where they live. Be patient – the youth are the future!

Liverpool win the greatest final

It’s six years since Liverpool clinched their tinpot Treble. What do you remember about their nine-goal Uefa Cup final slugfest with Alaves?

Well said Barry.

I remember the night and run up to the final well. I was living in Vitoria – Gasteiz (home of Alaves) and still do actually. I’m a Newcastle man myself but got caught up in it all because I lived in the City and because of my Scouse mate Arabian Jon who I had shared many Liverpool – Toon 4:3 ers.

Alaves were brilliant in the run up to the final and demolished some sound teams by rugby scores. The city went mental. The local press and radio got jittery and started jabbering about ‘ingleesh hooligans’ ‘Heysel’ etc. I couldn’t have that so I got myself interviewed on the local radio. I became a Geordie Michael Robinson in the week before the match.

I was invited to be an ‘expert summeriser’ on the night of the match – only problem was I had to work. I turned up at work, the city was silent and my class was full. ‘Ok kids – who wants an English class and who wants to see El Glorioso beat Liverpool?’ The class emptied in 30 seconds.

Commentating on the match was a hoot. The presenter was predicting 5 nil off microphone after Liverpool’s start. At half time we had to say what was the way back for Alaves. I suggested changing shirts and that Alaves should play ‘Liverpool the team – not the legend.’ (Too much respect)

When Jordi popped in the 4th for Alaves you could hear my one bit of English that night ‘f%ckin ‘ell Cruyff’s scored!’

The end was cruel and broke 200,000 hearts in Vitoria. One of my mates told me that the atmosphere at the match was incredible. He cried with pride along with thousands of others not when Alaves lost but when they ran out onto the pitch at the start. Little Alaves who had recently come up from Segunda B and to where we are unfortunately returning this year. But that night – ‘GLORIOSO’ indeed.

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My memories are not so beautifullly written in history (Geordie John mate, it must be you Ljepo, kako ste?), as I only managed to watch this final with a(nother) Geordie fan and his 65 yr old dad, and had to apologise constantly for rending the air with expletives of various hues during and after the game. All this after Jordi Cruff had claimed Liverpool were boring, and predicted something along the lines of ‘if Liverpool play defensively, we’ll do even moreso, and it’ll be one of the most boring finals ever’. Is he in manangement yet?

Funny, isn’t it though, how there’s all this hype building up to the FA Cup Final in the GU, yet when it’s one of three trophies won (let’s not make a fuss about the European Super Cup or the Charity Shield – something of a marketing ploy by Ged Houllier I think) in a season it becomes ‘tinpot’. Liverpool have never really been credited properly with the achievement. I don’t think any Liverpool supporter ever said it’s as good as a treble that includes The Title or the Big Cup, but fans of pretty much any club would consider winning even the League Cup a joy, let alone the FA or UEFA. Two cups in a season – something of a rarity, non? Why constantly try and diminish it by calling it ‘tinpot’?

I think Alaves deserve all the credit going for making a fantastic match of it – try asking them if the UEFA was thought to be tinpot – and their fans for being generous in defeat afterwards. Beats all the whinging on the first part of the blog, for sure.

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Thanks ljepo for your post. It brought balk all the pain and memories. As a Vitoriano and alavesista I will never forget that game. It was like a fairytale; only with a sad, cruel, tragic twist at the end.
And yet those football players made 200,000 souls feel very proud that night; and sometimes, just sometimes, that is almost as important as winning.

How will you remember Tony Blair?

Guardian News Blog

My Comment

Liar, poodle, spinner, superficial, traitor to the Labour movement, brown-noser to Murdoch and various other billionaires, opportunist, right winger and hopefully convicted war criminal in the future.